what came from the factory?

[Mark and Nancy Petri]

I was checking out a low-mile concours restored Mk 1a Tiger at saac-40 last week.
The engine block was ford blue and it had an alternator.
Any "facts" about when these changes came along?
I’m most curious.

[Michael Hartman and Donna Bissey]

The Sunbeam Tiger Parts List manual page WF3 shows the generator was Mk.1 and alternator was Mk.2. No mention of specific VINs.

Mike

[James Lindner]

Mark

According to BON, engine blocks were painted Ford Blue starting (approx.) with 382000601.

Jim

[Mark and Nancy Petri]

Thanks.
hmmm.
0688 had/has black engine and generator.

I see a 2xxx number at one of the Monterey Auctions with blue engine and generator.

[James Lindner]

Mark

The following quote came from Ron Fraser in a 2012 post to the Tiger 260 Engine Block thread.

All 260 blocks are painted black until the last batch in the B19KC engine group assembled in Oct 1965, they are painted blue.

I assume the numbers you mentioned in your post are 382XXXXXXX cars. If so, I guess a black block on 3820000688 might be possible, but is definitely not correct for 3820002XXX.

Jim

[Mark and Nancy Petri]

Thanks Jim. Somehow I’ve had the wrong idea in my mind for all these years 😯
Any info on the alternator?

Our car (0688) is coming up on its 50th birthday sometime very soon… just not sure exactly what month/day. Sounds like the engine was built before October 1965.

Mark

[anonymous]

Mark-

What is the VIN of your car? I can look in my Book of Norman for it’s exact birthday.

Fred Baum

[James Lindner]

Mark

To the best of my knowledge, ONLY MkII’s were factory equipped with alternators.

Jim

[Mark and Nancy Petri]

Jim –
Thanks for the info 🙂 We’ll see if anyone else "knows different"?

quote CLEVITE:

What is the VIN of your car? I can look in my Book of Norman for it’s exact birthday.

B382000688
Thanks, that would be great if you can check the date…I’d like to have a "birthday toast" for it since we started that with the T-bird’s 50th earlier this year

[Mark and Nancy Petri]

quote VaCat33:

Mark

To the best of my knowledge, ONLY MkII’s were factory equipped with alternators.

Jim

Scott Hackenson was just awarded Concours Gold at SAAC-40 for his Mk1a with alternator. I wonder how much the Judges know?

[anonymous]

Mark-

Your Jensen build date was 10/18/1965.

JAL No.: 660738

ROTA No.: 705

Fred

[Mark and Nancy Petri]

quote CLEVITE:

Jensen build date was 10/18/1965.

JAL No.: 660738

ROTA No.: 705

Thanks Fred 😀
That’ll be extra fun for the Show at the Macungie Fairgrounds on that very day this year for the 50th "birthday"!

Mark

[Eric and Bonnie and Bonnie Gibeaut]

I had a very late MK1A that had a serial number about 25 cars from the end of MK1A production that was totally stock. It had a blue engine block and a generator. Alternators came with the MKII. Eric

[Mark and Nancy Petri]

quote 65sunbeam:

I had a very late MK1A that had a serial number about 25 cars from the end of MK1A production that was totally stock. It had a blue engine block and a generator. Alternators came with the MKII. Eric

thanks – Very interesting!

[Mark and Nancy Petri]

quote VaCat33:

The following quote came from Ron Fraser in a 2012 post to the Tiger 260 Engine Block thread.

All 260 blocks are painted black until the last batch in the B19KC engine group assembled in Oct 1965, they are painted blue.

I assume the numbers you mentioned in your post are 382XXXXXXX cars. If so, I guess a black block on 3820000688 might be possible…
Jim

Where were the engines asembled? USA?
I’m learning some good history here.

[rfraser]

Last time I looked SAAC had an incorrect set of facts about Tigers.

Ford controlled the engine configuration and the color. TBON makes a very general statement about what color the engine is painted by Vin#. This is not a precise answer.

All 260 engines were painted black until the B19KC engine group. Ford change engine color to Blue for the 1966 Model year, Aug 1965. The last build for the B19KC engine group was in the Fall of 1965 – these 260 engines were painted Blue and had generators. Ford put Tags and date codes on these engines so it is still possible to determine what color the engine should be painted assuming these indicators are still present. I’ll glady help anyone with these questions.
I would also like to see more partisipation with my Engine Study.

Original Tiger Engine Study
Ron Fraser
rfraser@bluefrog.com

[Mark and Nancy Petri]

thanks Ron.
Back to the engine color/time frame… if the blue started at an engine plant in the USA in August, any idea how long it wold have been until Jensen was actually putting it in a Tiger in the UK?

[rfraser]

Current information indicates the Fall 1965 build of the B19KC engine was mid October 1965.

Shipping from the Cleveland Foundry could be up to 2 weeks or more; then moved from the entry dock in England to Jensen would take more time; then there is unloading, unpacking, some assembly maybe required and then placed in the Q to go to install assembly, all time consuming and variable. So NO I do not know the time frame for engines from USA to install.

My best guess right now on very limited information is 4 months; the time frame for my Tiger ‘s engine was 6 months so the time frame is also variable.

More information is needed for all Engine Groups to answer this type of questions.

Original Tiger Engine Study
Ron Fraser
rfraser@bluefrog.com

[Mark and Nancy Petri]

quote rfraser:

Shipping from the Cleveland Foundry could be up to 2 weeks or more; then moved from the entry dock in England to Jensen would take more time; then there is unloading, unpacking, some assembly maybe required and then placed in the Q to go to install assembly, all time consuming and variable.
My best guess right now on very limited information is 4 months; the time frame for my Tiger ‘s engine was 6 months so the time frame is also variable.

More information is needed for all Engine Groups to answer this type of questions.
Ron Fraser

I was thinking that the "delay" would be significant between Cleveland and final assy… that is a lot distance (and thus time via ship) plus a lot of logistical steps along the way.
Hopefully you’ll be able to gather more data and things will be more clear as time goes on.
Thanks again.
Mark

[Mark and Nancy Petri]

FWIW I was recently slapped around pretty good on the saac forum for indicating that there is such a thing as a blue 260 engine, and that there is such a thing as a late 1965-produced 260 😕
… thus I am really not sure why a blue-engined/alternator Mk1a was awarded SAAC Gold in the concours 🙄

Ron, maybe the SAAC data is ‘way out-of-date as you indicated?

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