SV clutch hydrolics

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SVRon
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SV clutch hydrolics

Postby SVRon » Sun Jul 28, 2013 2:41 pm

I'm having problems w/clutch, SV, not holding pressure, but doesn't seem to be leaking fluid, from anywhere. It will pump up and work for a bit, but if I hold the clutch in for any length of time, it will go right to floor. I've topped off reservoir and bled, but that didn't work. It's probably a cylinder rebuild, but which 1, master or slave? Any idea why I'm not seeing any fluid leak?
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Ron

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Re: SV clutch hydrolics

Postby CLEVITE » Sun Jul 28, 2013 3:16 pm

Could there be a leak in the master cylinder that is dripping fluid down behind the carpet up by the cylinder? Did you take the carpet and padding down to see if the area is dry?

Does the pedal feel get stronger when you pump it up? Does the pedal feel go down after you let it sit for a while? It might still have air in it.

How bad a leak, if any, do you suspect?

Maybe there is a small pinhole or split in the line from the master to the slave?

Just my $0.02 worth.

Fred Baum

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sunbeam2005
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Re: SV clutch hydrolics

Postby sunbeam2005 » Mon Jul 29, 2013 7:09 am

When rebuilding the clutch system you should do both at the same time no questions about that, the same for the brake system on these cars it is important. :mrgreen: Note: If the slave and master are old they may not work even if you rebuild them with new rubber, in that case you will need to have them sleeved to the std. size bores. 8)
Last edited by sunbeam2005 on Fri Aug 02, 2013 9:45 am, edited 2 times in total.
George Coleman

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Re: SV clutch hydrolics

Postby SVRon » Mon Jul 29, 2013 7:56 am

Thanks for the replies Clevite and Sunbeam 2005. Yeah, I have checked under the dash for leaks and it's completely dry under there. Like I said, I can pump it up and it "works" but clutch engages way too soon, compared to previous. If I hold it down, that's when it goes to floor. Got home by pumping it up, going through gears, coasting and braking, taking it out of gear at stop lights and repumping it up. Basically doing everything I can to avoid holding clutch in, for any length of time. Holding in really causes i t to lose pressure. Planing on calling SS for rebuild kits.
Ron

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Re: SV clutch hydrolics

Postby mikephillips » Mon Jul 29, 2013 9:43 am

What you may be seeing is an internal leak around one of the seals. When that occurs, due to a scored bore, failed rubber, etc it can lose internal pressure and the fluid doesn't leak externally. I've had this happen where one piece fails and will no longer "push" on the fluid.

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Re: SV clutch hydrolics

Postby SVRon » Mon Jul 29, 2013 1:27 pm

Thanks Mike,
I appreciate the reply. This is what I've been thinking, but didn't know if it was possible to have this kind of leak. I've ordered rebuild kits from SS. I'm pretty sure that I never rebuilt them, when I got the car running.
Ron

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Re: SV clutch hydrolics

Postby SVRon » Fri Aug 02, 2013 7:21 am

Just an update. I pulled the master cylinder and ordered the rebuild kits for both cylinders. One very strange thing is that the fluid in the master cylinder was black. This is very pecular because while trying to bleed the system I pretty much replaced everything in the MC reservoir. I thought the black might indicate that the rubber parts had been totally eaten by the brake fluid, but when taking it apart the rubber was definately "worn" but did not seem enough to turn fluid black. Although I did not rebuild cylinders when I did the restore, the system was throughly flushed. I got the rebuild kits in 2 days from SS.
Ron

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Re: SV clutch hydrolics

Postby sunbeam2005 » Fri Aug 02, 2013 8:51 am

The black may be an indicator that the last person to own it may have had the clyinder sleeved, but its probable the fluid is reacting with the old alum. clyinder. I have used castrol brake fluid for over 40 years and no porbs. I do however flush all my hydrolics every year and put in fresh. I have had no failer in the past 20 years, knock on wood!!!!! 8)
George Coleman

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Re: SV clutch hydrolics

Postby SVRon » Fri Aug 02, 2013 10:35 am

Hi George,
Thanks for the reply. I've rebuilt quite a few hydrolic MC's, both motorcycle and cars, but have never seen black fluid. Seen most other types of garbaged out fluids, just not black. There have been indications that PO had gone through car and made decent upgrades/repairs, so I guess it is possible it was sleeved. Is there anyway I could check?
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Ron

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Re: SV clutch hydrolics

Postby sunbeam2005 » Fri Aug 02, 2013 3:28 pm

I had mine done in brass, it left a blackish fluid for a few years after. You should be able to see the sleeve when you take the master appart, it should be brass color and not alum.
George Coleman

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Re: SV clutch hydrolics

Postby SVRon » Sat Aug 03, 2013 11:10 pm

George, I doesn't look like it's been sleeved, at least not in brass. Cylinder doesn't look bad though.
I cleaned the outside up a bit w/wire wheel and did the rebuild but when I put in some fluid it weeped from what looked like a pinhole, in the reservoir, from 1 of the pits, of which there are many. I tried to patch where I thought it was coming out, w/solder, but it's either continuing to leak from the same hole or there are others I haven't found yet. There is a good chance the solder didn't really do anything, but lay on top. I used a little solder pen and am sure the metal didn't heat enough for the solder to really sink in. Should I try, w/the solder again, using a torch? Any chance I could paint the reservoir w/an epoxy paint? Any new replacements available?
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Ron

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Re: SV clutch hydrolics

Postby sunbeam2005 » Sun Aug 04, 2013 5:03 pm

The master is no longer avalable, I think rick at SS may have a new replacement master? I would have the old unit resleeved if you need to stay with the stock look. Even thought the bore looks smooth it is not stock size any more and the alum. just did not hold up with the old brake fluid and the moisture it sucked up. Let me know if you need a good resleeve place, the people at Whitepost in Va. do a great job. 8)
George Coleman

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Re: SV clutch hydrolics

Postby SVRon » Tue Aug 13, 2013 8:22 am

Just an FYI update. SS sells the Tiger master cylinder as a replacement for the Alpines, it needs a brakeline adapter, to fit the Alpines.
As mentioned, after I installed the rebuild kit from SS, I noticed a lot of pit holes in reservoir metal, some apparently went all the way through because I was getting fluid seeping out of some. I tried using electronics solder to fill them in but had problems w/it not wanting to lay on the reservoir metal. Either because used wrong core solder or not clean enough. Decided to give JBWeld a chance. I covered the entire reservoir w/JB, let it set a couple of days and tested it w/brake fluid a few more days. I didn't see any fluid weeping, success :). Just to be on the safe side I used a 1 step spray epoxy paint on the whole thing. Installed it and took it on a nice long run. Seems to be holding and I now have functioning clutch. I also did a little modification on the MC attachment bolts. Since I have to do most repairs by myself, having to use 2 wrenches (1inside, 1outside) to remove the bloody thing is a total pain. I JBwelded the upper bolt to the firewall and the lower nut to the MC. Made reinstall much easier. Thanks for the replies/suggestions.
Ron

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Re: SV clutch hydrolics

Postby Janius » Fri Nov 28, 2014 2:48 pm

Sorry this way too late.... an MGB Clutch Master cylinder is a direct replacement for Rootes MC's. The only thing that is different is the rod from the pedal to the cylinder... and this is easy to swap. When I did my '62 Hillman a few years ago, I also replaced the solid line from the MC to the slave with a flexible line. I also used a banjo fitting at the MC (an idea I copied from MG).

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Re: SV clutch hydrolics

Postby SVRon » Tue Oct 03, 2017 2:57 pm

Hi Janius, Don't know if you are still on, but I appreciate the reply. I haven't been on much either, the past couple of yrs. I ended up replacing the MC, not long ago, w/the tiger MC and adaptor from SS. Wish I'd seen this reply, before buying the tiger mc. It's working well, but the reservoir is kinda tiny and really doesn't have the right look. Thanks for the reply.


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